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<  Echatio  ~  Ban Beggging

Should begging be banned in Glasgow?

Yes  
17%
  [ 4 ]  17%
 
No  
82%
  [ 19 ]  82%
 

Total Votes : 23
Hydewise
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:19 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 13 May 2007 Posts: 205
Post 10000. Yee haa.
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Mozza
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:19 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 2272 Location: 4.815 162.342
erganom wrote:
How rude. You are in a bad mood.

Okay, see yah.


Nah I'm just not up for a slanging match with someone who is clearly only interested in getting the rise out of me... have a nice day

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bobobo
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:49 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 Posts: 372
M:R Are you actually aware of the way asylum seekers are forced to live in Glasgow? If they are making money by selling the Big Issue as a scam I couldn't give a fuck. Good luck to them. I can't imagine how much of a wanker you would have to be to get their ID and report them. They are not allowed to work whilst their case is being considered, the money they receive literally keeps them at a subsistence level and the housing doesn't deserve the word.
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Lighting Monkey
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:03 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 820 Location: In the booth
The Big Issue has been getting scammed for as long as I can remember. Not long after it started in Glasgow, there was a guy living in my village who was getting them in Glasgow, after claiming to be homeless, going to Stirling and selling them there, as the sole seller (BI wasn't in officially in Stirling at the time) he had the market cornered, he was making about 150. This was when I was making about 100/week in a full time temp job.

I think it's extremely dangerous to mark one group as some source of all BI based scams.

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Music:Response
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:06 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 1256 Location: On The Wave Of Contradiction
I agree with the last sentence of your post completely, Bobobo, and it is shocking how poorly treated some asylum seekers are

However, this doesn't mean that they all turn to crime, which fraudulent selling is. It isn't an easy process to become a Big Issue seller, but it can be a valuable source of income for many homeless people, plus some asylum seekers do sell the Big Issue through the correct channels

I personally haven't gained their ID, but certainly don't see the problem in it. Some people are more personally affected by the very nature of the Big Issue, and perhaps they see a scamming of the way it works as something that shouldn't happen

It's certainly a difficult situation, which clearly stirs up a lot of emotion and opinion in most people on here

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bobobo
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 Posts: 372
What are you talking about M:R. How could an asylum seeker sell the Big Issue through the 'correct channels'? They aren't allowed to work whilst their case is being considered. You're very naive. You don't find informing on someone who has nothing, who may well have suffered repression in their own country even remotely shit? You sound like a Daily Mail reading fuck wit.
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erganom
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 108 Location: Location: Location:

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Oh dear...
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Music:Response
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 1256 Location: On The Wave Of Contradiction

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bobobo
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:30 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 Posts: 372
I presume that is a reference to yourself?
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Music:Response
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:33 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 1256 Location: On The Wave Of Contradiction
bobobo wrote:
I presume that is a reference to yourself?


You are correct, sir!


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erganom
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:36 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 108 Location: Location: Location:
Mozza wrote:
erganom wrote:
How rude. You are in a bad mood.

Okay, see yah.


Nah I'm just not up for a slanging match with someone who is clearly only interested in getting the rise out of me... have a nice day


you're pure para by the way!

I don't want a slanging match, but there does seem a fair amount of wooly headed liberal thinking on this thread. I respect your point of view, your opinions, general behaviour, your shoe size, in fact, everything about you. God I love you Mozza!

People are rather silly though aren't they?

Personally I think there is a big difference between begging due to destitution, caused by whatever reason, and this thing that seems to be happening now that people seem to be coming to Glasgow specifically to beg. It just seems weird to me. The area I live in is awash with recent very poor immigrants who have clearly no means of supporting themselves. While I don't begudge anyone's right to travel to find work or to make a new life for themselves, it seems that many recent arrivals seem to have come here because you make more money begging than back home.

I think this is a bad thing, and needs to be addressed. I don't really know what the answer is, and in a way, it is a legitmate consequence of being in the EU, that the richer nations share the burden of helping the poor. When the councillor suggests that parts of Glasgow are resembling third world countries, well this is indeed a bad thing too. Lots of aspects of the third world - rampant poverty and destitution for example are things we don't want here.

The motivations of beggars need to be assessed, and alternatives found for them, whether it is supported accomodation or employment, perhaps with language training as part of the package. And if these are offered as alternatives and are not taken up, well they shouldn't be allowed to beg!

As an aside, Scotland has a fine historical tradition of exporting beggars to the rest of the world, so one has to be pretty careful about passing any judgements.

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erganom
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:55 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 108 Location: Location: Location:
It should also be added that the background of East European beggars has to be understood. Many are escaping brutally harsh social and economic conditions that still exist in the poorer areas of the ex-Soviet bloc, and those with Romany blood are also escaping generations of persecution.

I think we in the affluent West have to a large extent a duty of care towards all the poorer people of Europe, but the effective execution of this duty is fraught with difficulty, and very fucking expensive.

The simple, but short-sighted and callous 'ban begging' solution doesn't even begin to solve what is a complex and serious issue.

Oh, and if I lived on the streets I would be taking whatever drugs and drink I could lay my hands on to get me through.
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tim
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:09 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 61 Location: glasgow or somewhere snowy
I actually thought that the 'asian' big issue sellers you speak of around the byres road area were eastern european, if we're talking about the same ones. I heard that they had been given some of the pitches round the west end because they were less likely to get abuse in the west end than other areas. I live near byres road and skate down there usually at least twice a day and i have noticed in the last couple of months a lot of different faces. I have lived there for over 7 years and think i know all the beggars and big issue sellers that frequent the area. I buy the big issue once a week. If you read the big issue then you should know that it's not just for homeless people but also those who have been homeless and are trying to get back on their feet (it says so in every issue). As far as i know most 'homeless' people don't actually sleep rough but stay in hostels or temporary accomodation. Let's face it it's not a glam job - people aren't going to do it unless they are in some kind of poor situation and fair play to them most of them are trying to do something positive about their situation. People claim that good money can be made from it but really, are people going to do it for big money? If you want to defraud the system, be a criminal or whatever surely there are easier ways that making 80p or whatever it is from every 100th person you ask. As far as illegal sellers go, usually they take the form of someone with one issue and no badge. I have not heard of the scam of big issue sellers with fake id's but there appears to be a problem with this theory - where do they get their issues from? Also, in regard to the ones around Byres Road, if they were illegal they would have been busted pretty quick because the genuine sellers would have been on to them in no time but yet it's the same new faces i've been seeing week after week.

Asterix* - some of my old skater pals actually use the term 'barse', or at least used to, it means (well to them at least) the bit of skin between yr balls and arse! (gents) so there you go Smile
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Music:Response
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 1256 Location: On The Wave Of Contradiction
I may be mistaken on their origin, Tim, but I'm positive the ones I've seen aren't Eastern European

As far as I knew, the "barse" you speak of is called the gooch

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erganom
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 108 Location: Location: Location:
Word^

Folk'll happily pay hundreds of pounds to Aplle or whoever for the next bit of high tech pish that they don't really need, but will quibble over a 1...
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