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WELCOME TO THE OPTIMO (ESPACIO) BULLETIN BOARD - ESTABLISHED 11:11:2000

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<  Echatio  ~  Ban Beggging

Should begging be banned in Glasgow?

Yes  
17%
  [ 4 ]  17%
 
No  
82%
  [ 19 ]  82%
 

Total Votes : 23
bobobo
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:36 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 Posts: 372
M:R That is one of your typically retarded posts. When will you learn.
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mistressanita
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 62
RE: Ianhasaface's (over)reaction to me just on previous page....

Hey you! Please do not over react or blow what I said out of proportion. I only agree with a couple of points that Stanley Kubrick said. I am not bigoted or conservative at all.

I have read this debate from the beginning. I actually don't think begging should be banned. How dare you assume that I do. I always give change when asked by a beggar. I don't think why - I just do it from the heart.

If I have given the wrong impression please accept my apologies. I am only giving my perspective from a female point of view. I always get approached by beggars when I am standing alone at deserted bus stops at night. Sometimes I do feel a bit afraid, especially when I sometimes have no change on me at all (just my bus pass) and the beggar gets a bit pissed off thinking I am lying.

You agree that some beggars are dodgy. This was all I was implying too. I don't lump them all in the category of junkies. I don't actually question why or how they got there. I just accept it's a situation outwith their control.

I am actually quite upset that you have reacted to me and not the original person who started this debate. I may agree with a couple of points he said but that doesn't mean you should call me names and lump me in the category of those who think begging should be banned because I NEVER said I think begging should be banned!

Please please if anyone who read the previous post aimed at me, and knows me or recognises my name please don't believe that I am like what Iainhasaface says. it's slanderous! and I am actually upset Sad
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iainhasaface
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 331
alright, fair do's, i apologise if you're hurt by my comments.

But you must agree to my viewpoint when you break down your message, which from what i gathered you agreed to Stanley Kubrick's comment that begging in Glasgow is a consequence of drugs above anything else. You stated that you totally agree, and i totally disagree. I find it an utterly derelict standpoint, and utterly derivitive when people lump in homeless as a bunch of junkies, and that's what i gathered you were doing when you said 'Totally agree with you. Good point'.

Like i said, if i offended you, i apologise. But maybe you should extend your arguements and comments so as to put your whole opinion across. Like in your last message.

_________________
anyway i'm famished...or is it victimised? I always get those two mixed up.
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mistressanita
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 62
Thanks for that Iain. I just didn't get why you insulted me when it was Stanley's quote in the first place!
I agreed with that comment because I am only ever approached by beggars who are obviously in need of money for drugs. That was why I agreed with that point. As I say perhaps I should not be a lone female at bus stops late at night. However I can't afford taxis Sad
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iainhasaface
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:29 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 331
the point at which i got offended at is the fact that there's nothing obvious about which homeless are junkies and which are not. Your comment spun me off because the way in which you wrote gave the impression that you agreed with Kubrick that most homeless folk are addicted to drugs.
And anyway, how do you know that the drugs are the cause of them living on the streets? From working with the homeless i have seen that addiction, more often than not, have been a cause of homelessness, rather than the reason. Be careful how you word things.
Just because people have an addiction does not mean they do not deserve any help.

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anyway i'm famished...or is it victimised? I always get those two mixed up.
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mistressanita
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 62
Yes but you took it out on me instead of Kubrick! Why? Have you read what he said? It's absolutely shocking! No way should begging be banned!

You called me bigoted and conservative! You also assumed I hadn't read the thread, you said 'Jesus, what are you?'
Yes I'm not afraid to admit you did upset me. You also humiliated me.

I also feel you aimed your anger at me when I didn't actually ever say begging should be banned or I hate the homeless! I have also NEVER said that drugs are the cause of them living in the street. Where did you get that? Don't accuse me of something I never said!

I only meant the beggars that approach ME in person are in my opinion drug addicts or alcoholics. Refer to Kubrick's quote- it said "What I see in Glasgow..." Exactly, it's what I myself see in Glasgow- the beggars that come up to me.

It's easy to tell which are alcoholics just by the way they smell. I reckon the eyes hold the key for the drug addicted ones. But don't quote me on this! I'm not an expert. All I'm saying is you can usually tell when someone has a real addiction and is suffering from withdrawal symptoms.

I also never said that people with an addiction don't deserve any help. OK I maybe sometimes wonder why I'm supporting and actively encouraging someone's drug/drink habit but that has NEVER stopped me from giving and I absolutely cannot let you or anyone else think that.

It's you who should be careful too how you word things. I'm not bigoted nor am I conservative. If you really knew me you'd know that. You really have no right to accuse me of things I've never said on a public forum Sad
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erganom
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 108 Location: Location: Location:
Errr, no offense, but are you a bit borderline mental likes?
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iainhasaface
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 331
Right, i would have assumed that Kubrick would have gathered that i wholly and fully disagreed with his statement. I only jumped on you because at the time you weren't explaining yourself. You simply stated that you agreed to his quote of 'What i see in Glasgow isnt begging as a consequence of poverty. Its begging as a consequence of drugs' without furthering any other opinion. You didn't add anything else to the debate there, and thus i assumed that was your whole viewpoint; that begging was down to drugs. That's why. If you'd have further explained yourself then i probably wouldn't have said anything.

I personally find this a very sensitive topic and nothing gets me more wound up than the stereotypical view that drink and drugs are the reason for poverty and homelessness. Like i said, i apologise if i offended you, my comments on you being bigoted and conservative were unfounded.

Yes, many out there are addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, and for some that is the reason for their living on the streets. But by no means is that the be all and end all. Yes, some you can smell the alcohol, and can see the drugs. But it isn't that easy to distinguish between those who have an addiction and those that don't. I actually disagree with the notion of giving money to beggers. The less money they get from the public the more they'll realise they'll have to work their way up the ladder. The problem i see is actually getting on the ladder in the first place, which is an incredibly complicated and exhaustive process, especially when you have nothing. But i feel they need begging to make that step, to 'hit bottom', per say. I understand your position of waiting late at night at a bus stop and being apprehensive whenever a beggar approaches you. But in my experience there's an incredibly small chance of a homeless person doing anything more than judging you.

_________________
anyway i'm famished...or is it victimised? I always get those two mixed up.
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emmakate
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:46 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 169
Quote:
It's you who should be careful too how you word things. I'm not bigoted nor am I conservative. If you really knew me you'd know that.


Absolutely - character judgements based on what people say on the internet are usually wrong. Having said that, it does seem strange to support your argument by saying "if you really knew me, you'd know where I was coming from." It's not as if you can interact with/understand people on an online forum through any other channels than... y'know, what they say on that online forum.

It's not as if you would have a raging debate with someone in real life and then say, "honestly, my internet persona is nothing like this!" Or maybe this is what people do now, I dunno.

What I'm saying is, I hope you're not personally upset or offended by people's responses to your comments - there's no reason to be. If people don't know you personally, then their comments can't be personal. What you've said is all we have to go on. People do have the right to respond honestly to the opinions you express on a public forum without being accused of personally attacking you, surely?... It's true that in general some people could be a bit nicer on here, but maybe it's dangerous to join a controversial discussion online if you're particularly sensitive to being judged unfavourably by strangers.

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too many protest singers, not enough protest songs
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mistressanita
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:39 am Reply with quote
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 62
Thanks Emma! You are right indeed - it's a bit silly for me to say to a stranger online that my profile is misleading and I'm much nicer in real life, honest! Smile

I said that because I feel a lot of people know each other in this forum. I, on the otherhand don't know anyone because I've never joined a forum before. That was why I said "if you really knew me you'd know that [i'm not bigoted or conservative]

You are right though my post sounds a bit silly when I read through it again. It's also silly that I got personally offended but that's because if you read this debate you will notice that Ian reacted more strongly to me rather than the person who started this debate! It made me think that perhaps he knows Kubrick but chose to rant through me instead because he doesn't know me. Maybe I am paranoid but I didn't think I deserved that when I don't agree that begging should be banned in the first place.

You are right though- I am a bit sensitive to participate in controversial discussions with strangers. I only just realised this because I've never joined a forum before. Lesson learned.

Since I don't hide behind a fake name (apart from Mistress bit!) I have no way of knowing whether anyone who responded to me knows me. If that was the case then that means it was personal. I hope not.

PS: In real life I'm not so sensitive, that's weird. Yep I am borderline mental: You have to be at my age and still go clubbing regularly to places frequented by youngsters . And enjoy it Smile
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iainhasaface
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:14 am Reply with quote
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 331
Just so you know, i don't actually know Kubrick, but i have been reading his posts for a while, and didn't think it was necessary to go OTT because i didn't think it would acually have any affect on him. Maybe i did rant at you because i haven't seen you on here before and required someone to vent my distain for the way the topic of conversation was going, which i already aplogised for. Sensitive topics can lead to overblown remarks; the pen is ultimatly more powerful than the sword, i guess.

_________________
anyway i'm famished...or is it victimised? I always get those two mixed up.
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mein crustacean
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:40 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 699
Quote:
You are right though my post sounds a bit silly when I read through it again. It's also silly that I got personally offended but that's because if you read this debate you will notice that Ian reacted more strongly to me rather than the person who started this debate! It made me think that perhaps he knows Kubrick but chose to rant through me instead because he doesn't know me. Maybe I am paranoid but I didn't think I deserved that when I don't agree that begging should be banned in the first place.


for goodness sake, it might be worth your while reading through a few other sections of this and other internet forums to get a feel for how they work. Ian was responding in a completely normal way, everyone on here doesn't know each other, most of us know a handful of other posters and that's not to say we like them. Kubrick was already getting his views taken apart left right and center so I'm not sure what u expected when you were agreeing with him.

There are currently three threads near the top of this board where you are whining about being treated badly, I'm a bit bored, if M:R cried every time someone was nasty to him Glasgow would be flooded.

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The cake is a lie!
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emmakate
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:20 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 169
Aye. Aaaaaaaages ago I tried to suggest on here that while another night club in Glasgow might not be the best thing for the city, it certainly wouldn't be the worst, and I was not-so-politely informed that it was people like me who allowed the Holocaust to happen. And, I mean, I'm not incandescent with rage and righteous indignation every time I think about it. Well, a bit.
Folk on here can be just a tad reactionary... I'm glad you and iain(hasaface) have resolved your differences, (mistress)anita - since you started posting, there's been more action on the board than I've seen in a while!

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too many protest singers, not enough protest songs
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Mozza
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:20 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 2272 Location: 4.815 162.342
emmakate wrote:
Aye. Aaaaaaaages ago I tried to suggest on here that while another night club in Glasgow might not be the best thing for the city, it certainly wouldn't be the worst, and I was not-so-politely informed that it was people like me who allowed the Holocaust to happen.


oh i missed that!

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lost in music
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Music:Response
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:47 am Reply with quote
Joined: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 1256 Location: On The Wave Of Contradiction
Mozza wrote:


are you for real? how exactly can you substantiate such a bizarre claim? how do you know they are 'clearly not homeless'!?


Because, of four Big Issue sellers I saw around the Byers Road/Great Western Road area, I saw them going into their flats across from the Tesco in Springburn when I was visiting one of my mum's friends

So, in at least a couple of cases, it is a fact, not a "bizarre claim" and has been substantiated. You need to watch not to jump on everyone's case so much, Mozza, unless you know for certain they're wrong

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