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WELCOME TO THE OPTIMO (ESPACIO) BULLETIN BOARD - ESTABLISHED 11:11:2000

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<  Echatio  ~  World Cup

Lighting Monkey
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:33 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 820 Location: In the booth
morgy wrote:
I don't think it is ill judged thinking at all.

I'm not anti-South Africa. My argument is solely based on the fact that this is going to be a public health catastrophe. How can you not see that?

40,000 prositutes & 16% of a population with HIV?

To quote someone earlier, GET A GRIP.

I think our priorities are completely eschewed towards how amazing it is that South Africa are hosting this World Cup. When more importantly, there is going to be a huge increase in HIV infections, and that is more important than some football competition.

And the apartheid comments were pretty cheap... Instead of forming a point, you just troll..... where's bobobo?


I've just read the article. It states that as many as 40,000 new prostitutes are expected for the tournament. Mostly from outwith the current South African sex trade.

If you accept that those that would have engaged in paid for sex would have done so regardless of the increase in prostitutes then the chances of HIV spreading have actually been reduced by this influx, making the assumption that a lower percentage of the new sex workers are infected than in SA.

Now add to that the fact that people are generally more aware of how rife HIV is in Africa and that hopefully this will make them more cautious. Then I'd suggest that the increase in HIV is unlikely to be significantly greater (statistically speaking) than if the tournament had been held in any other country.

If subsequent evidence proves me wrong, I'll happily accept you were right.

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morgy
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:59 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 164
Back to my original point:

morgy wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that it is quite irresponsible of FIFA to allow south africa to host the world cup


"This week, South African AIDS organizations accused football's governing body FIFA of blocking access to condoms and HIV education materials at World Cup stadiums and fan parks.

"To date FIFA has not permitted any civil society organization to distribute HIV or health-related information," said the AIDS Consortium, the Southern African HIV Clinicians Society and several other organisations in a statement."

Source: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5651557,00.html

Without any references to apartheid, racism, or any other inppropriate straw-man argument, I invite anyone to argue that FIFA have behaved in a responsible manner.

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Lighting Monkey
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:06 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 820 Location: In the booth
morgy wrote:
Back to my original point:

morgy wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that it is quite irresponsible of FIFA to allow south africa to host the world cup


"This week, South African AIDS organizations accused football's governing body FIFA of blocking access to condoms and HIV education materials at World Cup stadiums and fan parks.

"To date FIFA has not permitted any civil society organization to distribute HIV or health-related information," said the AIDS Consortium, the Southern African HIV Clinicians Society and several other organisations in a statement."

Source: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5651557,00.html

Without any references to apartheid, racism, or any other inppropriate straw-man argument, I invite anyone to argue that FIFA have behaved in a responsible manner.


That article was published on 6th June. The week before the tournament started, so it would be interesting to know if the situation continued, which would be wrong. That said the areas outside of the stadiums eg car parks etc are outwith FIFA control, so any moves to prevents dissemination of information in those areas would not be their responsobility. From my experience of stadia, distribution inside the stadium would be difficult and unwelcome.

It's a little unlcear what they mean by 'block access' as well. Have they banned condom machines from the toilets in the stadium? I wouldn't really expect their to be big bins of them freely available. Similarly the education materials, have posters been banned or were they expecting to be able to have tables with piles of leaflets? That's just not practical inside most football stadiums. Not in a way that would be effective anyway.

This is clearly an issue for you, and it's nice to see somebody passionate about something. I just think trying to lay the blame at FIFA's doorstep for awarding the tournament to SA (who lets not forget mounted a highly expensive campaign to win it) is barking up the wrong tree.

_________________
Girl: I thought the music would be more adventurous.
Me: *more* adventurous.
G: Yes.
Me: You're right, this is the least adventurous club in Scotland.
G: Yeah, it should be more housey.
Me: er.
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3underscore
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:23 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 190
Morgy should go watch a game with Mike Phelps

if they are blocking contraceptives it is very different than asking them to have control over the side industries that turn up in hosting such a big event.

I hope London take this into account and leave condoms all around the olympic village.[/url]
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morgy
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:36 am Reply with quote
Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 164
3underscore wrote:
Morgy should go watch a game with Mike Phelps

if they are blocking contraceptives it is very different than asking them to have control over the side industries that turn up in hosting such a big event.

I hope London take this into account and leave condoms all around the olympic village.[/url]


Fuck off with the daily mail jabs. It's not about that, it is a public health concern, and that's it. I know criticizing South Africa is a sensitive area, but how can you not see my point? And if you can, why the inane drivel about the daily mail?

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morgy
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:04 am Reply with quote
Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 164
Lighting Monkey wrote:
Then I'd suggest that the increase in HIV is unlikely to be significantly greater (statistically speaking) than if the tournament had been held in any other country.

If subsequent evidence proves me wrong, I'll happily accept you were right.


"A 2005 University of Michigan study found that 46 percent of female sex workers in Johannesburg had HIV"
(http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/01/07/worldcup.sex.workers/index.html)

A 2000 BMJ study of sex workers in Sydney found that the prevalence of HIV in female sex workers was 0.4%
(http://sti.bmj.com/content/76/4/294.abstract)

Now I don't go to prostitutes, but I presume they are not the ones that opt to go 'bareback', and that decision lies with the client. When your clients are boozed up football fans, this mortal decision may sometimes be made under conditions where health and safety are not the issue.

So with that in mind, do you still think it is a good idea for the world cup to be held in South Africa?

Yes it's great PR for the country, but to be honest, South Africa has got a list of fucked up shit that is wrong with the country longer than a Leonard Cohen song, and a football competition should not be a priority.

One only needs to look to the President of South Africa, i.e. the one who got charged for raping a HIV positive family friend.

Or you could look at the Minister of Health, Dr. Manto Tshabalala-Msimang who decided to combat the HIV epidemic by telling people to eat garlic, lemon, and beetroot instead of taking retrovirals?

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barry
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Mar 2007 Posts: 547 Location: hitchhiking on the expressway to yr skull
morgy wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that it is quite irresponsible of FIFA to allow south africa to host the world cup when it is obvious that without proper enforcement of laws, a 16% population of HIV positive, and thousands of stupid football fans, it is obviously going to cause a lot of new cases of HIV?


I hold a similar opinion on the highly irresponsible decision to host the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow in 2014. The governing body of athletics clearly didn't think through the fact thousands of hungry track and field fans will be left to their own devices in the largest city of a country where poor diet is a huge contributory factor to the shocking heart disease statistics that are among the worst in Europe.

It's no secret that a good percentage of 100m hurdle fans are a bit thick and are likely to head straight to the nearest saturated fat house of ill repute, more commonly known as the chippy, the minute they arrive in town. Like lambs to the slaughter they''ll clog their arteries and most likely drop dead of a heart attack before they even get the chance to sample other fun Glasgow stuff the IAAF really should have taken into account, like a good chibbing or the delightful sectarianism-riddled footballing community.

For shame, IAAF. For shame.

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