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<  Echatio  ~  Pc refuses to shake hands on religious grounds.

Should the Muslim PC who refused to shake hands with a male on religious grounds be allowed to serve in the police force?

Yes  
55%
  [ 5 ]  55%
 
No  
44%
  [ 4 ]  44%
 

Total Votes : 9
stanley_kubrick
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:00 am Reply with quote
Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 650 Location: The Belgian Congo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6284347.stm


Muslim Pc refuses to shake hands on religious grounds.

Whats she going to do if she needs to arrest a male as part of her job? This is a load of fucking nonsense in my opinion.

I put this to a vote.
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Sam McLaden
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 28
Sounds like a complete set-up to me - these stories are getting planted all the time, trying to stir up division. If it did happen, someone probably put her up to it - anyone who joins the police knows they will have to grapple with someone at some time so it's a bit of a no-brainer. I smell shite. Therefore I won't be running along with the herd into the designated 'thought response zone'.
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Mozza
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:20 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 2272 Location: 4.815 162.342
I agree and I also refuse to fan the flames of this shite by taking part in your vote Stan!

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lost in music
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teamy
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 968
"...there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.

This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.

I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again."

Robert F. Kennedy
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teamy
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:52 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 968
Or the more cynical
"Why should I hate someone on the basis of their religion, when I can take a little time to get to know them and hate them for a myriad of real reasons." Dennis Miller.
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Sam McLaden
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:23 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 28
teamy wrote:
"...there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.

This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.

I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again."

Robert F. Kennedy


Great speech - I've saved it, I think I may start an 'Inspiration' folder to offset some of the darkness that currently haunts my computer! Reading Kennedy's speech there, you just know he had to be bumped off. You can't have people with that kind of thinking in charge of the military-industrial complex; very bad for business
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faceless
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 3
as far as I'm aware the PC in question has no problem grappling, say, an oil-soaked madman in the process of her job as it's acceptable in the face of adversity - while shaking hands through choice is not.

Sounds like she has balls and integrity to me - pretty much exactly the type of polis I'd prefer to see.

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The Couch Tripper
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stanley_kubrick
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:55 am Reply with quote
Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 650 Location: The Belgian Congo
At best this sounds like she doesn't have the integrity to apply her beliefs consistently. Or is willing to undermine her beliefs to suit her circumstances.

Exactly what you dont need in the Police.
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Sam McLaden
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:34 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 28
faceless wrote:
as far as I'm aware the PC in question has no problem grappling, say, an oil-soaked madman in the process of her job as it's acceptable in the face of adversity - while shaking hands through choice is not.

Sounds like she has balls and integrity to me - pretty much exactly the type of polis I'd prefer to see.


I know she says she would overcome her beliefs in the face of adversity but the whole thing just doesn't ring true - I can't see someone who is so offended by shaking a hand happily taking a job where they spend half their nights walking down city centre high streets with drunk men pissing in the streets, vomiting and slappers showing their tits.
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mein crustacean
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:25 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 699
i understood that it was unnecessary male contact that she was meant to be avoid. From that i understood that she felt that grappling someone to the ground as part of her job would be necessary and that shaking a comanding officers hand wouldn't be.

At worst this could mean she's picking and choosing the bits of her religion to apply and at best she's completely misunderstood her job.

But to be fair without actually being there when she wouldn't shake hands, speaking to the people involved and having at least a vague knowledge of her beliefs i really don't think i'd beable to say if i thought it was right or wrong. I never really take these kind of stories at face value as they usually turn out to be horribly distorted.
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ms cara
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:19 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 838 Location: partick - god's own country
teamy, that is easily the most righteous thing i have ever read on echatio.
i salute you.

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life has surface noise
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